Author Interview: What is the theme of...

What is the theme of River, Cross My Heart?
The theme of the novel is migration, the movement of people and ideas. Certainly on one level the Bynum family has migrated from a rural society to an urban one. They have struggled to adapt. Also, it looks at the way that ideas migrate from one area to another. There's also the theme of loss and how a family, a group of loved ones, adjusts to the loss of one of their beloved.

Why did you choose to locate the novel so specifically? Why Washington D.C. and why Georgetown?
Because I grew up in Washington D.C. The novel is set in Georgetown because my mother and father both grew up there and they had very clear memories and recollections of that town in that era. It's no longer like that; that town only exists now in the memory of the people who lived there and moved out in the 50's. There's a very strong visceral attachment for them to that area. It's a little old fashioned to write a novel of place nowadays, but in a way I wanted to recreate Georgetown and sort of set it in literary stone; to make it definite as if you were there. When the last of the old Georgetowners goes, there will be a way to remember what it was like.

What kind of research did you do to create 1920's Georgetown?
I talked to my folks, my uncle and my aunts, and I did oral histories with older former residents. I also was helped by Mr. Carter Bowman, an archivist at the Mount Zion United Methodist church, which figures into the story. It's a historical church, and they have photographs and records from that era that he shared with me. I also read everything I could about Georgetown, the African American community at that time, and Washington D.C. I also did a lot of exploring around the neighborhood.

Is the Mt. Zion United Methodist Church an actual historic institution?
Yes, it is. It dates back from before the Civil War. I believe it was founded in the 1830's or 40's. It has a very long history. One of the interesting things about it is that it was literally built by the members of the congregation, many who worked during the day, and they came by in the evening and laid brick for the church. Sometimes they would bring lanterns. Several of the churches in Georgetown and Washington were built that way. Mt. Zion Church kept records of its early congregation, and about people who passed through. Those who passed through who were slaves and escaped North were coded as "gone away". Some were listed as "taken away" and those were the folks who were recaptured. It is said that the Mt. Zion cemetery was a way station on the Underground Railroad.

Was "gone away" in church records secret? I mean, did they list them as "died" for public eyes and "gone away" if they'd escaped?
I think the "gone away" was a code. That was to disguise the fact that the people had come through and escaped North. Keep in mind that at this time the births, marriages and deaths of people of African background were not listed. My mother is 82. Born in North Carolina, she has no record of her birth. It's that recent. So these people wouldn't have had legal documents other than these church records. It makes it difficult to do genealogical research for African Americans.

I'm wondering how much time researching versus writing you do?
That's kind of a hard question. I like to know a lot of things about my subjects. I like to throw out a wide net and see what I can drag back. I like to look at photographs--that helps me get started. I also like to read, and I dig around in old books to see what facts I can pull out. It would be hard to say what percentage of time I spend on research, because I use the research primarily to get my own imagination going, to get my juices flowing.

If you had to estimate, how much of the book's "history" did you have to create versus what you were able to research?
All of the characters are fictional. That part which is not fictional is street names and place names, that kind of thing. The town in North Carolina that they are from, however, is fictional. The places are historical--stores and things like that.

What was it like to work all that time on a first book that is so successful?
I'll tell you, it was really a learning curve. There were a lot of junctures at which I would think, "this is insane, why don't you just stop!" You see, I have a full time job. I spent most of my evenings and weekends and vacations doing research and writing. I went a long time without a vacation! My husband and I finally took a motor trip this year. It was a long haul, and I guess what it taught me was that you can accomplish a large project by moving it along in increments, because that's what I had to do. I couldn't spend 6 solid months. I had to do it in pieces. I was always saying "if only". Then I realized that I only have small bits of time, but lots of them. I learned you have to use what you have. You can't give yourself excuses. "I don't have a garret to starve in, so I'll never be a success." "I could have been Shakespeare if I didn't have dishes to wash." Some of my best ideas came to me while I was washing and cooking and doing dishes! It made sense though--that is a part of women's creative work.

Why and how did African-Americans settle in Washington/Georgetown?
A lot of African Americans were drawn to Washington and Georgetown during the Civil War, escaping slavery. Washington was pretty much the first place they could get to in Union hands. Virginia was part of the Confederacy. Maryland wasn't all that friendly. There were plenty of slaves still in the state of Maryland. The slaves would be considered free if they got to Washington because it was "free". Prior to that time, people were enslaved in Washington. A year before the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, Lincoln tried freeing slaves in Washington, D.C. People were monetarily rewarded for freeing their slaves. They had to list their slaves and describe them, and they were reimbursed. The number of African Americans swelled during the Civil War, and it continued to grow during the years of reconstruction. North Carolinians came because that's where the train led them. It was the closest big city from their town.

What types of employment were available to African-Americans in 1920's Georgetown?
Certainly, laborers for the men. Janitorial, construction, any sort of entrepreneurial job you could come up with for yourself, such as rag picking. There was a job that a lot of children had in collecting bits of glass. They were taken to places where the glass was recycled. Metals also. For women, of course, domestic service was the big opportunity. Cooks, laundresses, maids, and seamstresses. All of that kind of work, and a lot of varieties of that work, were available. What wasn't available was clerking in stores. They wouldn't have done that unless they were working for an African American employer. There were some doctors, dentists, undertakers, ministers and even some police officers. They didn't have jobs like street car conductors or office jobs though. Unless, of course, they were able to pass for white.

How would you characterize racial segregation in Washington and especially Georgetown in the 1920's?
I would say that it wasn't quite as pernicious in that area as it was in the deeper South. Certainly there were incidents of beatings, and there was rioting in Washington in 1919. It was a pretty ugly situation. That was a pretty turbulent year for relations in the country as a whole. So, it was a little bit better, or more comfortable for people; it wasn't as overt, but things still weren't completely rosy. One thing that made it a bit unique was that the housing was to some degree segregated. There were some streets where blacks and whites lived side by side. That was very unusual for that period!

If you were living there at that time, what could you imagine yourself doing and being?
I would probably be doing what Johnnie Mae and her mother and her aunt Ina were doing, or some version of that. Ina Carson was a seamstress. It's skilled labor, and highly prized at the time. I have interests in sewing and needlework, so I like to think that maybe I could have snagged a seamstress job. My own maternal grandmother was a cook. She worked as Alice Bynum did, as a day worker. She worked for one family one day, another family the next day, and went home to her family in the evening. At one point she worked in Maryland and traveled a bit, and was considered an extremely good cook. I'm not a bad cook myself. Maybe I could have been a cook. The fringe benefits were tasty. You had the option of bringing things home to your family and that was helpful. These things sound interesting, by the way, but options were limited. I couldn't have had a job like I do now in that era. Clerical jobs were out of the question for African Americans until the WPA in Washington, and until World War 2. My grandmother went to college and should have been able to be considered for a clerical job, but she was not. My mother did have a clerical job in the early 40's.

Did you find it painful to re-create the African-American community of the 1920's in your imagination because of all their hardships and dealing with prejudice, etc?
No, I found that the more I researched some of the trials and tribulations of that era, the more respect I gained for the people who survived--and not only survived but flourished! They were the sort of people who, given lemons, made some very good lemonade. It doesn't change the fact that they were discriminated against, and disadvantaged in terms of economic opportunities. And let's not forget they were living in housing that in some cases was substandard, but in every case where they were renters, they paid more than a white family would have paid. That was also typical of Harlem in that era as well. It was an uphill battle for them. When I reflect on that, I'm really very proud to have been descended from people who were so strong and clever and resourceful. It's transformed my life, so I've been allowed more opportunities than they were allowed. It leaves me with a feeling that I need to accomplish a little bit more. It's as though these people had prepared a way that sort of opened doors that they themselves were unable to go through and take advantage of, but they cleared a way for me and others like me. Educational opportunities and occupational opportunities especially.

You hear a lot about the "Jim Crow" laws in the South after slaves were freed. Was there anything like that in D.C. in the 20's?
Oh yes. Black people could not be served in restaurants in Washington--they weren't desegregated until the 50's. Other public facilities weren't desegregated until the 60's in nearby areas. There was a period in which the street cars were segregated, but it didn't last long because of protests. Also, no fair housing, so a landlord could refuse to rent or sell. Certainly the government services (the clerical jobs in the federal government) were segregated until the 1940's. I believe it was Truman who desegregated the armed services and government services.

Why did most of the black community of Georgetown move out in the 1950's?
They moved out in the 1950's in large numbers after the passage of The Old Georgetown Act. Much of the housing in Georgetown dates architecturally from the Federal period. A lot of the old housing was falling into serious disrepair. There were those who were trying to have that legacy preserved, so the act was passed that set up an architectural board. Their responsibilities were to review development, and spur property owners to renovate these properties. You couldn't take a federal house and turn it into a Victorian. This board oversaw projects. One of their aims was to move blacks out of Georgetown. Many of the blacks lived in alleys. Unlike New York, Washington has alleys, a string of houses on the street, and behind them a corridor which faces the back of the next street's housing. You'll have BlahBlah Street, behind which is an alley, then the next block of houses. People built dwellings in the alleys. It is a crowded town. This alley housing was extremely substandard. No plumbing. The people who lived there were very poor. These alleys were unsightly and very numerous. One of the aims of that act was to get rid of the alleys and restore the area to a quaint Federal Period look. Georgetown has always had homes for very wealthy people. Prior to that time, however, it also had lower income housing as well. Many of the African American renters, after renovations, were no longer able to afford them. Other neighborhoods in Washington were opening up to blacks, so there were places for them to go. Before then, the number of neighborhoods for African Americans was more limited. A number of African Americans who owned properties were assessed higher taxes after the act, and were also urged to do renovations which they couldn't afford. They were redlined and unable to get loans, so they were forced to sell.

I read the Publishers Weekly review, and they said, "each chapter is an intense set piece that sometimes provokes more questions than answers." Why do you think they said that?
I think because some people feel that a novel should tie everything up neatly in a package. This novel doesn't do that. I don't see that as a bad criticism. From reflection, I think that's fine. I'm not sure exactly what they mean, but I think that's good because I wanted to raise a few questions! Questions about how African Americans are perceived... peoples' ideas about men's work, women's work, black people's work, white people's work... that kind of thing.

When did you first start to write?
A long time ago! I would say around the 7th or 8th grade. I was involved with and interested in pursuing a career in theatre before I started working on this novel. I was doing dramatic writing. I started out pulling together plays in the 7th or 8th grade and did that through high school and college.

What inspired you to write this book?
I was inspired through my parents' recollection of Georgetown. Their memories were sharp! They left in the early 50's. But they have maintained very clear recollections of the neighborhood, and I was fascinated by that. What really got me started was that my mother was preparing some oral history tapes for me. She had taped a session, and I was listening to it, and she was talking about her childhood in Georgetown, and it sounded so rosy that I thought she was trying to make it happy-happy. She started, though, talking about the whites only swimming pool. She had always been an outstanding swimmer. Johnnie Mae is based on her. At that point, her voice changed on the tape, and it struck me that after all these years she still bristled at this injustice. I got to thinking about what influence something that many people would consider a small thing in the grand scheme of things (the depression, World War II, other events) would have, and yet this event had the power to make her feel angry. That got me thinking about what sort of young women she would have to start out as to have turned out to be the woman she is. That's how the story started.

What is the Three Sisters?
It's an area--actually 3 boulders in the center of the Potomac River, north of the Key Bridge which links Georgetown with Roslyn, VA. We had always been told that 3 nuns were in a boat that overturned and they drowned there. The boulders sprung up where that occurred. There are other stories too, but 3 women always drown. People give it some kind of spiritual creepy tone. I even read they were supposed to have built another bridge to cross over near there, and there were many construction accidents, so they gave up! People imagine there is a lot going on there.

Melville used the ocean as a 'presence' in Moby Dick. Were you trying for that same kind of effect with the Potomac here?
Well, yes, I think so. I imagine that the Potomac has a personality. I think that rivers inspire that in the people who live nearby. I grew up in Washington and we used to take auto rides in the summer to Hanes Point, on the banks of the Potomac. There are boat rides from there. I always grew up thinking of that river as having a personality. My mother, the great swimmer, would always caution us about falling into the river. She would tease us that she wouldn't jump in to save us. It became important for me to embrace the river in that way. This is my river.

8/19/99

© 1999